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Measuring Ourself in Body-Form
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Maharaj: You’ll get some courage, power, energy to tolerate all these things. Not even that, I’m telling you, you’ll overcome all the difficulties of your physical problems also.
I’ll tell you a real story, about Guru Ranade, a devotee, a disciple of Bhausaheb Maharaj, it is fact. In those days, say about one hundred years back, he was suffering from tuberculoses, and in those days it was an incurable disease. Guru Ranade’s mother took him to Bhausaheb Maharaj, and he (Guru Ranade) was really surprised that out of meditation he was completely cured. Really, it is a miracle. Though it is not Reality, it happens, it can happen, because you have tremendous power. What I want to tell you, the principle behind that is: you’ve got tremendous power. Anything can happen. You’ll get courage to tolerate all these body-based concepts, all these body-based physical problems.
And therefore I’m insisting, in the beginning stage, you have to devote some time for meditation, it’s very basic. Only discussion is not sufficient. Now the ball is in your court. But it doesn’t require any conditions, any restrictions, what you’re eating, what you’re doing.
Through meditation you can identify yourself in a real sense. Basically identification is most important. All these concepts appeared upon your Presence.
Q: I have a question.
Maharaj: Yes?
Q: I’m finding the more quiet I get, and the quieter my mind and ego get, that my desire to be of service is the only thing that matters. Money’s not mattering, food’s not mattering, just being of service to others has become a priority. Is that natural progress, or…
Maharaj: What happens is we’re counting ourself, measuring ourself in body-form. So many desires are bound to be there, expectations, needs are bound to be there. So for which, after having strong devotion and meditation, all desires will be dissolved. You remain untouched with the world.
What do we want exactly? In the human life, what do we want? We want happiness, peacefulness, tension-free life, and fearless life. But everybody is having fear of the death. After knowing ‘what is death? Exactly what is death?’ – in deep sleep are you fearing? In deep sleep: “Oh, let me go alone!”, you want deep sleep, no? So like that, why to fear death? There’s no death at all. Prior to beingness have you got any fear?
So to have a fearless life, you have to undergo meditation. Meditation gives you courage to face these things. It is placing before you your Reality. And thereafter, I’ll tell you, meditation is also illusion. Until you’ve got Spontaneous Conviction, meditation is a must. Then meditation will be spontaneous afterwards – that Mantra is going on throughout. It creates a vibration, it’s reminding all the time: “You are Brahman, you are Brahman, you are Brahman”, knocking on the door all the time.
Yes, any questions? It’s very simple. Yes?
Q: Can you be specific about the meditation? When we do meditation, it’s not just like closing our eyes and concentrating, but we have to repeat the Mantra? And another thing is: what kind of thinking we should have when we meditate?
Maharaj: Yes, it’s a good question. I’ve placed before you the Ultimate Truth, the body is not your identity at all. I’m not the body, I was not the body, I’m not going to remain the body, it’s a fact. Through meditation, through involvement, through devotion, you’re reminding all the time to your Selfless Self: you’re not the body at all. And after having continuous involvement and devotion, there will be Spontaneous Conviction.
I’ll give you a simple example. This body is called man, you accept it as a man, you’re dreaming as a man. You’re not saying “I’m a man, I’m a man, I’m a man”, some name is given. That conviction that this body is called man, this body is called woman, we accepted it. So you’re neither woman nor man, you’re Brahman, you’re to accept the Reality. And for which you have to undergo the meditation. Through meditation you forget your body-identity, you forget about your body-concepts.
Temporary Reliefs
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Where do you stand? What is the place of spirituality in our human life? Because the human life is painful, there’s so much pain, no pleasure. And therefore, to tolerate this human body, we’re in search of so many material causes. Money is required, publicity is required, sex is required, desires are required. In spite of all these material causes, we’re not happy. There’s no happiness, there’s no peacefulness. Only temporary reliefs we’re getting. How to get permanent happiness? Is permanent peacefulness there or not? Yes? The moment you identify yourself in a real sense, happiness will be there. Happiness, unhappiness, pleasure, pain, came along with the body. And the body is not your identity, the body was not your identity, and the body is not going to remain your identity. This is a food-body, a human body.
I’m not discouraging you to do all these things. Spirituality is so many things: how to live happily, how to live peacefully. The moment we identify ourself, peace is there. As you know, the body is not your identity at all. Some or other day, willingly or unwillingly, you have to leave this body.
Practical Spirituality
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Maharaj: In the beginning it happens, in the beginning it happens. It’s a cleaning process. All concepts are eliminating. Your so-called mind, ego, intellect are pricking from the back side. That internal force is trying to distract you from the Reality, it happens in the beginning. Because we’re having, directly or indirectly, body-concepts. It will take some time.
But not to ignore your family responsibility. Because we’re human beings. Spirituality is not a restriction, bondage, blockage in your human duty. Do your duty. If you have responsibilities with your family members, take care of your family members. Not to say only ‘I am Brahman, I am Brahman, Brahman, Brahman’. If you say ‘Brahman’, who will give you food? You have to do your job, do your duties, you have responsibilities, but at the same time there should be Conviction.
Yes?
Q: Thank you, Master. So you mentioned fire and ash, you used that analogy. So ash, for me, has been automatic. It’s like there’s a constant narration happening. I look at a pizza, “Oh, it’s a good pizza, it’s a bad pizza”, it seems to be so automatic. And it keeps going and perpetuating on its own. I’ve had a few moments here and there where I didn’t have any relationships, because the relationship with my wife and children is only activated the moment it comes into thought. If I’m here there’s…Nothing is there, no worries are there, it’s just here. But these moments are so far in between, and then when I have them there’s this desire to capture that, to keep it. And then I read books, and that turns into a new form of thought, it’s just changed how it sounds. But then I’m just reading about spirituality, philosophy, and then it takes the place of practical thoughts. But it’s the same perpetuating thought, it just keeps going.
But then I heard that you said you recommend meditation and the Naam Mantra, and that’s what brought me here today. I’ve gotten a taste of that and I want to hold onto it because its so much better than this constant narration of life, because there’s nothing else besides this narration.
Maharaj: See, one thing’s there, that the existence of Presence touched with the body, and you say ‘I’. Along with that ‘I’, along with the human body, all responsibilities are there. Pain is there, pleasure is there, relations are there, ‘my wife’, ‘my son’, ‘my father’, ‘my daughter’, ‘my Master’, and all relations appear. Give just due to all those relations, but at the same time, try to understand, ‘Where were all these relations prior to beingness?’ Not to neglect all these relations, give just due to all these relations, if you are a father, you’re a mother, or sister, or whatever position it may be. But, you have to know yourself. All these relations are body-based relations, but not to neglect all these responsibilities. There should not be so much attachment. I’m not asking you to neglect your family responsibilities. But all these relations are body-based relations. Prior to beingness, what relations were there? After leaving the body, what relations will remain?
So, while we’re holding this human body, whatever responsibilities we have with this human body, we have to observe them. We have to live like a human. But who is holding that human body? If there is no Presence for a moment, what relations are there? That Conviction is supposed to appear. I’m not asking you to neglect your family, neglect your body or neglect anything. Do you job, do your duties. Have practical spirituality, not theoretical spirituality.
Meditation is Giving You Courage
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So meditation is the base, I’ll tell you.
Yes, yes?
Q: When I get to this place of feeling presence, the concepts drop and I just feel this pure experiencing, where there’s this confusion, and a lost feeling. And there’s some resistance that comes, and I can be like that for maybe five minutes, ten minutes, some length of time where I feel like I can’t function in the world. The mind’s not there, so that if someone even said, “Do you want a pizza?” I wouldn’t even know what a pizza was, I would be confused. And then there’s some part of me that is scared, that it doesn’t want to lose it’s individuality or identity of who I am, because it can’t even fathom that. Like it’s going into nothingness and being nothing, and then suddenly I go, “Woah”, and I come back to, ‘I’ve just got to be this person and do my thing’. And I’ve felt like I’ve gotten to that place so many times, and then there’s this resistance. It’s almost like there wants to be some bargaining, “Can I just hold onto a little piece?”
Maharaj: You’re experiencing all these things. This is the struggle of your thoughts, concepts. And you are knowing what struggles are going on inside. All these struggles appear upon your Presence. Prior to beingness, no struggle was there. The struggle appears upon your Presence. Because, some or other way, that concept ‘I am somebody else’ is there. That concept is supposed to be dissolved. So don’t fight with the concepts, don’t fight with the mind, don’t struggle with the mind. Thoughts are coming and going.
Therefore meditation is most important. Meditation plays a very good part. In the beginning you have to undergo the meditation, then all your concepts will be dissolved. You’ll remain unconcerned with all thoughts, untouched with the whole world.
Yes?
Q: I just…
Maharaj: Because, except your Selfless Self, nothing is there. All these concepts, body-based concepts, appear upon your Presence. These are layers. You’re experiencing all these concepts. “Why am I experiencing so many things here?” These are layers upon your Presence, they’re supposed to be cleared. And meditation is giving you courage to control all these things. It will happen spontaneously, nothing is impossible for you. Don’t become a victim of your own concepts.
Long Association with the Body
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Feelings are bound to be there, because relations are there. ‘My father’, ‘my mother’, ‘my husband’, ‘my child’, it’s okay, it happens. This is not bad, don’t feel bad, this happens. Because we are having long association with the body, if something happens to(inaudible) we feel sorry, very sorry. Because we have love and affection with the body. We’re loving ourself more than our relatives, you know? You know the story of that monkey?
Q: So there’s this parable of a monkey, a very terrible story. It illustrates, sort of, how much you prioritize yourself. There’s a flood, so the monkey tries to climb up. The water still keeps rising so the monkey tries to climb up further. And then she can’t climb any further, and her children are there. So she tries to lift the children up, but the water reaches up, up, up. Finally she just gets desperate, and she stands on the child. A terrible story.
The point it’s trying to make is that you have an instinct of self-preservation for your body that trumps other things.
Shall we wrap up? If there’s any more questions?
Maharaj: You can ask questions, be free.
Q: Maharaj, when you said in ‘Selfless Self’, that Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj taught you or showed you how to read the book ‘Dasbodh’. But you never said what he taught you, you never said how he taught you how to read. You just spoke about it but you never said…
Maharaj: Ah, yes, when I used to go every day to Nisargadatta Maharaj, during those days. The regular reader was not there, so he asked me to read the ‘Dasbodh’, and I was reading with a very low voice, no? So he said, “Your voice should go to ten thousand people!” So, like that, what I am today, I am because of him only. All my education, all everything. He gave practical advice. Once I was sitting in the corner, he said, “What are you doing?”, (I replied) “Nothing”. (He said), “What do you mean by spirituality? Pressing the feet of the Master? Putting garlands? Clapping? This is not spirituality. Do something in life. Why don’t you join college?” I was not in a position to join college because some financial problems were there. “Join college! Don’t come to me! Don’t bring any garlands! Don’t bring Prasad!” And coincidentally, one minister of the college was there. “Take this boy in your college.” He felt sorry because I got very low, marginal marks in my (inaudible). “Take this boy in your college”. And with great difficulty I joined college. He used to say, “Do something. You have to learn to the age of 40.” And so I was learning until the age of 40. My graduation, my(inaudible) graduation, my law graduation, all these degrees belong to Maharaj. He treated me just like his child.
And with the grace of Nisargadatta Maharaj, my Master, I am sharing this knowledge free of charge with everybody. And I told you, the same thing Siddharameshwar told, if you’re Realized, make others Realized. Place your carpet and start talking the knowledge, but not to make commercialization of the knowledge. Why? Why is money required? It’s free knowledge.
Yes, I Can Do It!
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Maharaj: The bodies are different, Presence is one. And for which, spiritual courage is most important, ‘Yes, I can do it’. It’s not an egoistic statement. And for which, again, meditation is most important.
Whosoever Master it may be, have some strong faith within yourself and your Master, whosoever Master. But not to measure your Master in body-form, it is a formless Master.
You want to ask anything? Yes?
Q: The mind is quiet.
Maharaj: You may ask any question, no problem.
Q: I would like to say, Maharaj, that after…The moment I received your book ‘Selfless Self’, for me it rang…it was a truth what you were saying. I felt totally convinced. Your words rang very true for me, and my hope was to, after reading the first few pages, was simply to meet you and to see you. I understand what you say, that the Master is not in body-form, but it is very important to see you in body-form.
Maharaj: It’s okay.
Q: But my spirit, I felt like it clicked with you, and I’m very happy to be here and to see you now. You made everything so clear, clearer than it’s ever been for me before. And I’m most grateful to you.
Maharaj: So you are to undergo some meditation, that’s most important for you. Have you got any Master? Have you come across with any Master previously?
Q: I’ve been in the Presence of other teachers. When I was a teenager I was directed to go to the Vivekananda Vedanta Society, the temple of Sri Ramakrishna. Because, when I was sixteen years old I met a man, his name was (inaudible), and I started learning Tabla from him and he told me about Sri Ramakrishna. For a little while I lived with his family and he directed me there, but then after that I met other teachers too. Probably one of the most important was (inaudible), he was a teacher in the Sufi lineage, but also he was very much concerned with other lineages too. And then, of course, reading the works of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. But I feel that all of this has led me to you, and I believe with all my heart that when you say this is the final destination, I believe that emphatically. What you teach and what you are saying about who we are, it is the final destination. I feel I don’t need to go anywhere anymore. Even if I hadn’t had the opportunity to meet you, I still would feel that way.
Maharaj: It’s nice, very good.
Yes?
Q: I think you just expressed a lot of our feelings in here. Having had decades of searching, and then finally, ‘Here’s my Master’. It’s just such a blessing.
You Bow Down To You
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It is very simple, nothing is required. And therefore I say, except your Selfless Self nothing is there. Be spiritually strong, have courage, “Yes, I can do it!”. We are having a lack of courage. You are no more a beggar, you are a billionaire! It’s fact. We are begging to all “Oh, do something for me, do something for me”, why?
I am telling this story – you might have read this story somewhere. Some boy is begging on the street, you know. And somebody like you comes across him and says “Oh, why are you begging? Your parents left a lot of money for you.” – “Oh, you are making fun of me!” – “It is fact!”, you are taking him to the bank, showing him “You’ve got a lot of money!”. After knowing “I am a multimillionaire” you’ll not beg on the street, correct? Same thing has happened in our case. We are begging “Oh god bless me, do something for me, do something for me”, you’re bowing down everywhere, here and there. But Master says “Why are you bowing down anywhere? You bow down to you”. You are Master of Masters. You are Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God. After having Conviction, you’ll not bow down to anybody. Not that you’re not respecting everybody, but you’ll know. Just like that boy, after knowing the Reality, you’ll not beg on the street. And therefore I am insisting not to underestimate yourself. You have got tremendous power.
This is all free of charge knowledge. Therefore we are having a lineage discipline not to demand anything from any disciple or devotees. It is your knowledge, we are not favouring you. It is fact, I am placing before you fact. And for which, I am repeating: you are to undergo strictly meditation, it is the only source. Beyond that nothing is there. And this human body is an opportunity for everybody. Do your duties, there are no restrictions. Not to sit lazy or idle in the name of spirituality. Do your job, do your duties, remain with the family members, perform your responsibilities. But at the same time you must have the Conviction that ‘I am not the body at all, I was not the body at all’.
So all body-based concepts are supposed to be dissolved totally. And when will they be dissolved? After having Spontaneous Conviction. To have the Spontaneous Conviction ‘I am Brahman’, you have to undergo strictly meditation. There is not any other source. Until you’ve got Conviction, until that time, you are to undergo the discipline of meditation. And I am telling you, meditation is also illusion, but at the advanced stage. Because we forgot our identity, through meditation we are inviting the attention of the Meditator ‘you are Brahman, you are Brahman’. It is not difficult at all, not impossible also. Your total involvement is required, strong will is required. It is fact, even if you think intellectually, it is fact.
I Have No Naam Mantra
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Q: I have no Naam Mantra, so what I do, I read the book. I do this, ‘I am Brahman, Brahman I am’.
Maharaj: Yes, yes, that’s enough. Until you get conviction you have to undergo the discipline of meditation that ‘I am Brahman, Brahman I am’.
Q: I know it’s there.
Maharaj: Yes, you have to forget your body-identity. The purpose of the mantra ‘I am Brahman’ is just to forget the body-identity.
Q: And the word ‘bija’, ‘b-i-j-a’ in the bhajans? ‘Bija Mantra’, it says, what does that mean? Is that the same as Naam Mantra?
Maharaj: Naam Mantra is words, I repeatedly told you. ‘Aham Brahmasmi’, ‘Sivoham’, ‘I am Brahman’, these are the words through which you are indicating yourself, concentrating yourself, hammering yourself, because you forgot your identity.
Q: I want that to …
Maharaj: See, everything is within you.
Q3: …run continuously.
Maharaj: Ah, you have to recite that. This body is called woman, you are female, your parents told you this body is female and you accepted it, correct? You’re acting as a female. So, Master says ‘You are Brahman’, and you’re not accepting that. It’s open Truth. Male or female is not your identity at all, it is given to the body-form. The holder of the body-form is called Brahamn, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master, that you are.
Not to take literal meaning of what is mentioned in the books. So many times it happens: “Oh, Ramana Maharshi says like this, this Master says like this”. We’re not here to analyze the statements of the various Masters. What they convey, that is most important. What did they convey?: Except your Selfless Self, there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman.
It still seems like a fantasy and a good idea
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Q: So, for the past eight years I’ve read so much, I’ve done so many practices that people have shown me and things like that, and I just feel more confused and more lost than ever before, and I’m just tired of it and I need it all to stop. And I understand it intellectually, a lot of it, but there’s no conviction at all. It still seems like a fantasy and a good idea. I just don’t know what to do anymore to get…
Maharaj: You must accept this, that you are not the body at all. It is fact, open fact, forget about spirituality for a time. You are knowing intellectually that this body is not your identity at all. You were a small child, you have become a young man, after you will become an old man, and after, willingly or unwillingly, you will have to leave this body. That means the body is not your identity, open fact. Forget about spirituality, these are intellectual things. The concept ‘I am somebody else’ is supposed to dissolve. The concept ‘I am somebody else’ is supposed to be dissolved. There is no karma, no dharma, no destiny, nothing is there. You are totally unborn, it is fact! So many concepts are there after reading so many books. We are depending upon bookish knowledge, literal knowledge. Last birth, future birth, who’s birth? Is the sky taking any birth? Is the sky having any destiny? You’re Spontaneous, Invisible Presence is beyond that.
Reminding Your Selfless Self
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Maharaj: Don’t count hours!
Q: Well I don’t specifically, but I kind of generally…
Maharaj: Out of that Mantra, that ‘I’ is supposed to be dissolved.
Q: I’m sorry?
Maharaj: Out of this Mantra, the words, that ‘I’, so called ‘I’, the egoistic ‘I’, is supposed to be dissolved, that’s the purpose behind the Mantra.
Q: Yeah, but right now the ‘I’ doesn’t like not sleeping.
Maharaj: Because you’re measuring yourself in body-form. There’s no awakening, there’s no sleeping. There’s no consciousness, there’s no unconsciousness. All concepts are related to the body only. Prior to beingness, any sleep was there? Any awakening was there? Any consciousness was there? No concept was there prior to beingness, and after leaving the body, where does that ‘I’ go?
So through the Mantra some vibrations are created inside. Through that vibration your body-based concepts dissolve. And therefore I said it is the anti-virus software. Since childhood till today, so many concepts are there. Because we’re a victim of our own concepts. So many concepts are there. What you have listened to, what you have read, you have to forget it. Try to find out where you stand.
Q: You talk about spiritual courage, and it seems like courage for me is putting up with a lack of sleep
Maharaj: Ah, you must have courage to accept the Reality. For which you must have strong faith within you, “Yes!”, and your Master also. Your Master says ‘You are Brahman’, you have to accept, ‘I am Brahman’. If somebody abuses you in bad language, you’re accepting immediately, you’re slapping him, correct? Because, you see, that bad word, meaning has been given to that word. Meaning is given to that bad word; you say this is ‘donkey’, “What are you calling me?” But if we say ‘You are Brahman’, you’re not accepting it.
Try to identify yourself, it’s not difficult at all. Not to define any word, not to criticise any word, not to analyze any word. So many words are there. Language is just for conversation, just for communication. Words are not Ultimate Truth. What they convey, that is most important. So be with you all the time.
So, all problems will be solved. And as I told you, tremendous power is within you. You can overcome all problems. There are so many examples, I’m not quoting the examples, but it’s Reality.
Q: When I take a break from the Mantra, I just kind of be with the ‘I am’…
Maharaj: Why to take a break from the Mantra, the Mantra is not giving any harm to you.
Q: It’s not giving any harm to me?
Maharaj: Yes. These are words, always alerting you from the illusory concepts. They’re reminding your Selfless Self.