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Why to read so many books? Okay, you require so many books, but what they convey is most important. Only reading thousands of books is meaningless. Because you are the central point of this world. If for a moment the Presence is not there, what is the value ofthis body? And what is the value of the knowledge? Where was that knowledge prior to beingness? What is the use of that spiritual knowledge after leaving the body?

Thousands of questions are there. The answer is within you. There is only one answer: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman. They’re all concepts which appear upon your Presence. Even ‘I am Brahman’ is also a concept which appears upon your Presence. Presence does not know ‘I am Presence’.

And therefore, instead of studying spirituality, try to absorb what you’ve listened to. It’s the Listener’s story, the Listener’s Identity. Because this body is an opportunity for you. Don’t waste time. It is invaluable, your Presence is invaluable. Through the body you can identify ‘I’.

It’s a combination of Presence and the body. Presence touched with the body, and you say ‘I’. Just like a matchbox and stick. Fire is everywhere. The moment the matchbox and stick click each other, you see fire. Where will that fire go? Hell or heaven? The moment the Invisible Presence touches with the body you say ‘I’. Where was that ‘I’ prior to beingness?

So be practical. You’ve got a lot of theory. You’re not required to study any spiritual books. ‘The five elements are there’, ‘these bodies are there’, ‘four bodies are there’, why to use all this ‘four bodies’ and all these things? The ‘subtle body’, ‘this body’, ‘consciousness’, ‘unconsciousness’, ‘awareness’, this is only playing with the words. You’ll not get happiness out of that. It’s entertainment, momentary spiritual entertainment. What is the use of spiritual science?  It’s what it says, “You’re separate from all these five elements.” The moment your Presence appears, all this entire world is projected, including the five elements. You are the father of the five elements. Where was the sky prior to beingness?

I’m giving a simple example. In a dream you see everything, correct? You’re sleeping, you’re in deep sleep. You see the sky, you see the moon, you see the sun, you see the ocean, you see so many people. Until this day you might have seen thousands of dreams. What has happened to all those people you’ve seen in your dreams? How was that dream world projected? You’re there and there only. This is a long dream-world.

But what happens? A lot of desires are there. “I want this thing, that thing, that thing.” One devotee came to me talking about some thoughts, they mentioned facebook or something. The human being, in the beginning we’re not coming along with these pockets. After leaving the body, you’re not having any pockets. Why to fill the pockets in between?

That means, prior to beingness nothing was there. Now so much anxiety, now so much greed is there, “I want this, I want this, I want this”. Who wants all these things? For what? How long are you going to use all these things? Temporary reliefs. Money is there, sex is there, publicity is there, so many things are there, so many material causes are there.

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All needs, requirements, desires came along with the body. Where were those desires prior to beingness? Everything dissolves along with the body. What remains? Nothing.

Q: Master, is it best to stop reading your book, or Nisargadatta’s books? Is it best to stop reading that at some point?

Maharaj: Not to stop reading! You read it! You can read books, but you’re reading your biography. When you’re reading certain books, suppose this a story given from birth to death, a biography, “Oh, it’s my biography! It is my story!” You read it in that way. Somebody wrote a biography on your life without your knowledge, when you come across with such a book, “Oh, it’s my biography!” Like that, when you’re reading any – Ramana Maharashi is there, Nisargadatta Maharaj is there, so many Masters are there. Their language is different, but what did they want to convey? So many spiritual books are there. Don’t “subtle body, this body, that body”, what to do with the bodies! Where are the bodies prior to beingness? “Four bodies are there, this body”, what to know, why to bother with these ‘bodies’!

See, the principle behind spiritual knowledge is that this body belongs to the five elements. You are the projector of these five elements. Where were these five elements prior to beingness?

Sky is there, earth is there, wind is there, sun and light is there. So all these five elements came along with the body. Where were the five elements prior to beingness? After leaving the body will you know any elements? Nothing will be there.

So all knowledge, whatever knowledge you have, will dissolve along with the body. So why to play with the words? All spiritual words are an indication inviting the attention of the Invisible Listener

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Maharaj: ‘Shama’ means tolerance.  So all attributes…Forgive and forget, it appears. Previously, for small, small matters, you’re getting irritated. After having Realization, after having Spontaneous Conviction, nothing has happened, no irritation. Whatever happens, whatever small thing appears in your experience, you’ll be completely calm and quiet. Exceptional tolerance will be there, exceptional blissfulness is there. All desires will disappear. No desire, no mind, no ego, no intellect – it happens spontaneously, and it’s called Spontaneous Conviction.

You’ll become completely free. Even though you’re using this body, either male or female, you’ll remain unconcerned with the body-knowledge. You’re using the body as a temporary thing. Just like you’re using some thing, say, an instrument – like that. It happens spontaneously. That is the conviction, the Spontaneous Conviction. Understanding is quite… “Oh, I understand, I’m not the body”, it is not so easy. And for which, again I am repeating, meditation is the basic thing. You have to devote some time. Some time means at least one hour. If you consider 24 hours, at least one hour. What are you doing for one hour? Just to try to identify the Unidentified Identity within you. I was not the body, I am not the body, I’m not going to remain the body. That Reality will be absorbed totally within you.

So even though you’re living in this world as a male or female, you’re unconcerned with the body activities. It happens. Complete peacefulness will be there. And this is very simple. The Nama Mantra is playing a very, very good part. Through Nama Mantra you’re hammering yourself. Slowly, silently, and permanently, all these desires, all these expectations and needs, will be dissolved. You’ll be completely free, completely free, completely silent, silent, silent.

So understanding intellectually is not sufficient. Because everything is within you. Spirituality, Reality, is not separate from you. So far we’re measuring ourself in body-form, therefore we’re not able to identify ourself in a real sense. If we haven’t identified ourself in a real sense, whatever you’re doing, if you approach thousands of Masters, if you read thousands of books, it will not help you.

Some people come and say “50 years I’m doing spirituality”, “30 years I’m doing spirituality”, what are you doing? Subtle ego is there: “I’m doing something”.  You’re not the doer! There’s no deed! Nothing is there.

So, the first stage, body-identity is supposed to be dissolved totally, spontaneously. It happens. Nothing is impossible, you’re getting courage.

So, don’t play with the words, the spiritual words, we’re playing with the spiritual words: ‘Atman’, ‘Paramatman’, so many, so many, thousands of words. We’ve created language, we’ve given meaning to the language. Not to struggle with the language. Someone is saying “why this, why you”, these are the words! Just for conversation, just for sharing the Reality, knowledge.

See what was there prior to beingness. Any language was there? No ‘I’ was there, there was no ‘you’, no ‘he’, ‘she’, ‘it’, nothing was there. No concept of God, no Master, no disciple, no devotee, no deity. Nothing was there. After leaving the body, what remains? You’ve got a lot of knowledge, you’re master of knowledge, okay. Will that knowledge be helpful at the time of leaving the body? What is the use of that knowledge? What do you mean by knowledge? Just to identify oneself in a real sense. We’re identifying ourself in body-form and that is illusion, this is open fact.

So everything starts and ends within you. As I told you, everything came out of nothing and everything dissolves within nothing. Your Presence was there but not in any form. You’re formless Presence. After leaving the body your Presence will be there, but not in any form. Just like so many houses have collapsed, what is the fate of the sky, space? Sky is not dying, there’s no death, no birth.

So ‘death’ and ‘birth’ concepts are supposed to be dissolved. All desires will be dissolved. It happens! We’re having subtle, subtle desires. So instead of studying the spirituality, try to digest that spirituality within you. Spirituality is not separate from you. So far we’re measuring ourself in body-form, counting ourself in body-form, spirituality will be different. The moment spirituality is absorbed, at that stage there is no ‘I’, there is no ‘you’, ‘he’, ‘she’, nothing is there. No God is there, no Master is there, no disciple, no devotee, nothing is there! Therefore I’ve told you: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman.

All needs, requirements, desires came along with the body. Where were those desires prior to beingness? Everything dissolves along with the body. What remains? Nothing.

Q: Master, is it best to stop reading your book, or Nisargadatta’s books? Is it best to stop reading that at some point?

Maharaj: Not to stop reading! You read it! You can read books, but you’re reading your biography. When you’re reading certain books, suppose this a story given from birth to death, a biography, “Oh, it’s my biography! It is my story!” You read it in that way. Somebody wrote a biography on your life without your knowledge, when you come across with such a book, “Oh, it’s my biography!” Like that, when you’re reading any – Ramana Maharashi is there, Nisargadatta Maharaj is there, so many Masters are there. Their language is different, but what did they want to convey? So many spiritual books are there. Don’t “subtle body, this body, that body”, what to do with the bodies! Where are the bodies prior to beingness? “Four bodies are there, this body”, what to know, why to bother with these ‘bodies’!

See, the principle behind spiritual knowledge is that this body belongs to the five elements. You are the projector of these five elements. Where were these five elements prior to beingness?

Sky is there, earth is there, wind is there, sun and light is there. So all these five elements came along with the body. Where were the five elements prior to beingness? After leaving the body will you know any elements? Nothing will be there.

So all knowledge, whatever knowledge you have, will dissolve along with the body. So why to play with the words? All spiritual words are an indication inviting the attention of the Invisible Listener

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Maharaj: No form is there. Prior to beingness any form was there? We’re not knowing ‘Who am I?’ To say ‘I am’, some Presence is required. Where is that ‘I’ prior to beingness? That Conviction, I’m not just talking understanding, that Conviction is supposed to appear spontaneously. For which you have to undergo strictly meditation, it’s the only source. Not any exercise, no torturing of the body. You’re not required to go anywhere, to any temple. You’re not required to go to any Master also. Approach your own Master. You’re neglecting your own Master. You’re measuring yourself in body-form, that Master.

Knowledge is everywhere. That is called Realization. Because it is Unidentified, Invisible, Anonymous Identity. There’s no name. You can’t see, you’ll feel it. What you see is illusion, through which you see is Reality. The entire world is projected out of the Seer’s, the Invisible Seer within you. The entire world is projected out of the Invisible Seer within you.

You can’t guess. Mind, ego, intellect disappears. These are functioning elements, they’re not bad. If you use excessively, the mind, ego, intellect, it will be bad. We say that anything in excess will be poison.

So have all your responsibilities. Not to neglect you body, not to neglect your family. Do your job, do your duties. “Oh, I’m a spiritual man, how can I do those things?”, no. Because you’re Final Truth. Therefore Spontaneous Conviction is supposed to appear, with the result that you’ll remain unconcerned with the world, untouched with the world, untouched by all concepts. All desires will dissolve, no desires will be there.

Therefore spiritual courage is required to accept the Reality. The Reality is not separate from you. And therefore again I am repeating, meditation is the only source. With the intellect we can understand, it’s okay.

Why is knowledge required? Because we forgot our identity. What do you mean by knowledge? Just to identify oneself, a simple thing. After identifying ourself, the identifier disappears.

Through various words I am trying to convince the Invisible Listener within you, which is formless.

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Maharaj: What you have listened to, what you have read so far, you have to absorb it, you have to digest it, number one. Second thing, you must have the Conviction, ‘I was not the body, I am not the body, I’m not going to remain the body’. That Conviction is supposed to appear spontaneously. And how will it appear? After having continuous meditation.

Meditation is not only chanting the Mantra. The meaning of the Mantra – ‘I am Brahman, Brahman I am’ – that is the meaning of the Mantra. But through the Mantra you are hammering yourself. The Mantra is only the cause, you are the consequence. These are the words. It is having some tremendous power. These are not simple words, they have tremendous power. It is creating some vibrations. You’ll feel some changes within you. With full faith, with strong faith, you recite that Mantra, spontaneously you’ll feel something else. Slowly, silently, all this illusion and desire will be dissolved. There will be the spontaneous feeling that my Presence is everywhere and in everyone. In every being my Presence is there. Just like Lord Krishna says, (Maharaj quotes a scripture in hindi), my Presence is everywhere, in every being.

Have you read Gita? The Bhagavad-Gita? My Spontaneous, Invisible Presence is within every being. It is formless, it is shapeless. There is no specific identity, there is no individuality, therefore there is no duality. If at all you want to compare (yourself), compare just like sky or space. You’re beyond that.

Though you are holding this body, you remain separate from the body, untouched with the body, untouched with all these activities.

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So everything starts and ends within you. As I told you, everything came out of nothing and everything dissolves within nothing. Your Presence was there but not in any form. You’re formless Presence. After leaving the body your Presence will be there, but not in any form. Just like so many houses have collapsed, what is the fate of the sky, space? Sky is not dying, there’s no death, no birth.

So ‘death’ and ‘birth’ concepts are supposed to be dissolved. All desires will be dissolved. It happens! We’re having subtle, subtle desires. So instead of studying the spirituality, try to digest that spirituality within you. Spirituality is not separate from you. So far we’re measuring ourself in body-form, counting ourself in body-form, spirituality will be different. The moment spirituality is absorbed, at that stage there is no ‘I’, there is no ‘you’, ‘he’, ‘she’, nothing is there. No God is there, no Master is there, no disciple, no devotee, nothing is there! Therefore I’ve told you: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman.

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Feelings are bound to be there, because relations are there. ‘My father’, ‘my mother’, ‘my husband’, ‘my child’, it’s okay, it happens. This is not bad, don’t feel bad, this happens. Because we are having long association with the body, if something happens to(inaudible) we feel sorry, very sorry. Because we have love and affection with the body. We’re loving ourself more than our relatives, you know? You know the story of that monkey?

Q: So there’s this parable of a monkey, a very terrible story. It illustrates, sort of, how much you prioritize yourself. There’s a flood, so the monkey tries to climb up. The water still keeps rising so the monkey tries to climb up further. And then she can’t climb any further, and her children are there. So she tries to lift the children up, but the water reaches up, up, up. Finally she just gets desperate, and she stands on the child. A terrible story.

The point it’s trying to make is that you have an instinct of self-preservation for your body that trumps other things.

Shall we wrap up? If there’s any more questions?

Maharaj: You can ask questions, be free.

Q: Maharaj, when you said in ‘Selfless Self’, that Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj taught you or showed you how to read the book ‘Dasbodh’. But you never said what he taught you, you never said how he taught you how to read. You just spoke about it but you never said…

Maharaj: Ah, yes, when I used to go every day to Nisargadatta Maharaj, during those days. The regular reader was not there, so he asked me to read the ‘Dasbodh’, and I was reading with a very low voice, no? So he said, “Your voice should go to ten thousand people!” So, like that, what I am today, I am because of him only. All my education, all everything. He gave practical advice. Once I was sitting in the corner, he said, “What are you doing?”, (I replied) “Nothing”. (He said), “What do you mean by spirituality? Pressing the feet of the Master? Putting garlands? Clapping? This is not spirituality. Do something in life. Why don’t you join college?” I was not in a position to join college because some financial problems were there. “Join college! Don’t come to me! Don’t bring any garlands! Don’t bring Prasad!” And coincidentally, one minister of the college was there. “Take this boy in your college.” He felt sorry because I got very low, marginal marks in my (inaudible). “Take this boy in your college”. And with great difficulty I joined college. He used to say, “Do something. You have to learn to the age of 40.” And so I was learning until the age of 40. My graduation, my(inaudible) graduation, my law graduation, all these degrees belong to Maharaj. He treated me just like his child.

And with the grace of Nisargadatta Maharaj, my Master, I am sharing this knowledge free of charge with everybody. And I told you, the same thing Siddharameshwar told, if you’re Realized, make others Realized. Place your carpet and start talking the knowledge, but not to make commercialization of the knowledge. Why? Why is money required? It’s free knowledge.

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Maharaj: The bodies are different, Presence is one. And for which, spiritual courage is most important, ‘Yes, I can do it’. It’s not an egoistic statement. And for which, again, meditation is most important.

Whosoever Master it may be, have some strong faith within yourself and your Master, whosoever Master. But not to measure your Master in body-form, it is a formless Master.

You want to ask anything? Yes?

Q: The mind is quiet.

Maharaj: You may ask any question, no problem.

Q: I would like to say, Maharaj, that after…The moment I received your book ‘Selfless Self’, for me it rang…it was a truth what you were saying. I felt totally convinced. Your words rang very true for me, and my hope was to, after reading the first few pages, was simply to meet you and to see you. I understand what you say, that the Master is not in body-form, but it is very important to see you in body-form.

Maharaj: It’s okay.

Q: But my spirit, I felt like it clicked with you, and I’m very happy to be here and to see you now. You made everything so clear, clearer than it’s ever been for me before. And I’m most grateful to you.

Maharaj: So you are to undergo some meditation, that’s most important for you. Have you got any Master? Have you come across with any Master previously?

Q: I’ve been in the Presence of other teachers. When I was a teenager I was directed to go to the Vivekananda Vedanta Society, the temple of Sri Ramakrishna. Because, when I was sixteen years old I met a man, his name was (inaudible), and I started learning Tabla from him and he told me about Sri Ramakrishna. For a little while I lived with his family and he directed me there, but then after that I met other teachers too. Probably one of the most important was (inaudible), he was a teacher in the Sufi lineage, but also he was very much concerned with other lineages too. And then, of course, reading the works of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. But I feel that all of this has led me to you, and I believe with all my heart that when you say this is the final destination, I believe that emphatically. What you teach and what you are saying about who we are, it is the final destination. I feel I don’t need to go anywhere anymore. Even if I hadn’t had the opportunity to meet you, I still would feel that way.

Maharaj: It’s nice, very good.

Yes?

Q: I think you just expressed a lot of our feelings in here. Having had decades of searching, and then finally, ‘Here’s my Master’. It’s just such a blessing.

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Maharaj: So constant meditation is most important. Any words, ‘Aham Brahmasmi’, ‘Sivoham’, through which you’re inviting the attention of the Invisible Concentrator within you. It’s in the beginning stage. The basic knowledge you’ve already got. You’ve read ‘I Am That’, you’ve read ‘Selfless Self’, through which you’ve got some spiritual understanding. After reading that you have to absorb that knowledge. It will happen spontaneously within you. Because you’re the source of this world. Your Spontaneous Invisible Presence is the projector of this world. If there’s no Seer, who will talk about the seen? It is very clear.

But you need courage to accept the Reality. You do your job, do your duties, have responsibilities, open a business, you can do all these things. But at the same time you remain unconcerned and untouched with the world. Where was this world prior to beingness? After leaving the body, what is the fate of this world? So be with you all the time.

Only reading books is not sufficient. It’s a waste of time. Not to torture the body. Try to identify yourself. When you are trying to identify yourself, the identifier will disappear.

Everybody in this world is struggling for peacefulness, happiness, a tension-free life and fearless life. Because all the time we are measuring ourself in body form, therefore all these concepts are required. What is  a peaceful life, who knows it? What is Peace? What is tension? Where was that fear prior to beingness? Nothing was there. After leaving the body do you want any peace? Any tension will be there? No tension. Because we are counting ourself in body-form, all tensions are there, all desires are there. It is not bad. We’ve become a victim of mind, ego, intellect, why? You can use it, but not to become a slave of your mind. So have silence and violence will disappear.

When you’re reading books, read as if it’s your biography, it’s your story. And be loyal with you, have some strong faith within you. Don’t underestimate you. You are prime, you are the central point of all this world. ‘God’, ‘Brahman’, ‘Atman’, ‘Paramatman’, etc., these are the words indicating your Identity. It is Invisible Identity, it is Unidentified Identity, it is Anonymous Identity, it cannot be guessed. Where everything ends, there you are. So have some firmness, have some courage, ‘Yes, I can do it’. Nothing is impossible. You have to break all this circle of the various concepts. We’re acting within the circle of some concepts. Brahman is also another concept.