Knower, Seer – Names Are Given

Knower, Seer – Names Are Given Download Link

Sri Ramakant Maharaj a recorded discussion from Ranjit Ashram in Nashik of Satsang with Sri Ramakant Maharaj December 23, 2017.

Q: What is the nature of the power that emerges due to devotion to the Sadguru? You once said, “Sadguru bhakti has strong shakti power.” Can you comment on this?

Maharaj: There’s no doubt that Sadguru bhakti has tremendous power. It is rooted through the disciple or devotee. As a matter of fact, there’s no difference between Sadguru and disciple or devotee—the power is the same, both are formless. But, so far, we are considering ourselves as individuals with form, so the concept of Sadguru, the concept of disciple, is there.

Power is everywhere. Though you are in the form of disciple, there is essence of Sadguru there. And Nisargadatta Maharaj says, “I’m not making you a disciple, I’m making you a Master.” So, everybody has that Masterly essence, but you forgot your identity. Therefore, the Sadguru and disciple, these two concepts, are there. As a matter of fact, there’s no difference between Sadguru and disciple, number one. The power is there, already the inbuilt power within the devotee and Master is there. So, when you’re having strong devotion with the Sadguru and strong devotion with this Naam Mantra, and the vibration is going on inside, you’ll get that power, it will emerge inside. For example, if there’s a fire covered with ash, if you remove the ash the fire is coming out. Similarly, the power is there but it is covered with so many illusory concepts. The moment those concepts dissolve, at that time that power will emerge, or will be focused. So, in the beginning you are to undergo strictly meditation—that is most important. Without meditation, dry knowledge will not help you.

See, we’re holding the human form. What do we require? Everybody—every being, forget about humans—every being wants happiness, peacefulness, a tension-free life, a fearless-life. Everybody has the fear of death. So, after knowing the Reality, there won’t be any fear of death. At the time of leaving the body, you won’t have the feeling that ‘I am dying’. So that is the purpose of spirituality. Spirituality is not only dry teaching, you have to live a practical life. So, so far, we are holding the human life, and so many difficulties are bound to be there. But those difficulties and unpleasant atmospheres will be minimized after spirituality. And meditation gives a lot of help for that. So, we’re asking, we’re insisting from everybody, that instead of reading so much theoretical knowledge, be practical, because meditation is the foundation. If the foundation is weak, the building will be weak. So, to understand, to digest that knowledge—what we read in the Bhagavad Gita, in the Vedas, so many books are there—to have practical knowledge, you have to undergo strictly meditation, it’s most important. There’s no other way besides meditation. And therefore, read the books, listen to the Masters, no problem, but your inner Master is most important. Your inner Master is Master of Masters, because the entire world is projected out of your Presence. I’m talking about that Presence through which you can identify yourself. You’re watching the world, but if there’s no awakening in the morning, who will talk about the world and God? So, after awakening…Prior to beingness, how were you? Presence is there but it is not visible. It is visible through this body-form. And therefore, I’m inviting the attention of the Invisible Presence within you that is called Ultimate Truth, Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master. It is very easy to understand intellectually, but in practical life you have to digest, absorb this knowledge of the Reality. The Reality is that except your Selfless Self, there is no God. Reality means that you are Ultimate Truth. The Invisible Listener within you is Ultimate Truth. God is not separate from you. “Oh God, bless me, oh God, bless me.” Where is the God? If there is no Identifier in this body, how can you recognize God? If there is no Presence in the body, who will talk about the God? So, you are prior to God, but you’re not accepting it. It’s fact. Because, I’m telling everybody, you’re the father of God. You may not like it, but it’s fact. Because God is a creation in the human body, by the human being. Where was God prior to beingness? After leaving the body is any God there? So, God is also a concept, hmm? Saint Tukaram Maharaj says, (Maharaj quotes in Marathi): “They are imaginary Gods. All Gods are imaginary.” And it was in those days (17th century) that Tukaram Maharaj said this. It’s a fact, but nobody is accepting it. But forget about that. We’re not going to have any analyzation or personal struggles. But during this human form we have to identify ourselves in a real sense. We’re identifying ourselves in body- form and that is not our Reality at all. For that Conviction, that Spontaneous Conviction, you have to undergo strictly meditation.

What is meditation? Meditation means concentration. What do you mean by concentration? Concentrating on the Invisible Concentrator within you, which is called Brahman, Atman. You can’t guess it, who is concentrating. But after trying to know, the Knower will disappear. Because this entire world is projected out of this Knower. The Knower is invisible Knower. You may give it any name—Knower, Seer—names are given. It is beyond imagination. It is said, your Presence is just like space or sky. There is no specific identity. Therefore, in the beginning we are insisting, undergo strictly meditation. Because only talking, talking, discussing is meaningless. Because I can say so much theory: “What ‘Brahman’ is, ‘Atman’, ‘Paramatman’, ‘God’, ‘Master’, ‘Maya’, ‘five elements’, ‘five bodies’…” This has nothing to do with that. So, have practical knowledge. What is the use of the Vedas and all these things? Try to identify yourself, through which you can vanish all the concepts. You have to come out of all concepts. So, to have this fearless life, to have a comfortable, blissful life, you have to undergo strictly meditation in the beginning. Thereafter it will be spontaneous. Afterwards it is not necessary, but in the beginning, you have to strictly undergo meditation.

So, we’re giving some lineage words that came from Dattatreya, and the meaning of those words is ‘I am Brahman, Brahman I am’, very simple words. But, you have to practice it, you have to devote some time —half an hour, one hour, two hours. But in those days, previously they used to meditate years together. Bhausaheb Maharaj used to meditate ten hours, twelve hours per day. Now it is reduced. But at least you can devote two hours. Half an hour at a time, you can divide it. But at the beginning it is necessary, and then it will be spontaneous. Okay.
So, any questions anybody wants to ask?

Q: So that power that arises after—

Maharaj: That power is inbuilt power within you. Power is not separate, energy is not separate. It is inbuilt power, but you are not aware of that power. That energy, power, emerges out of your meditation. Power is inbuilt within you, power is not separate from you, but you are not aware of that power. Therefore, we are trying to invite the attention of that Invisible Listener that you are Ultimate Truth, you are Final Truth.

Q: Maharaj, I have one question. Why is it so rare that people reach the Ultimate stage?

Maharaj: Forget about other people. Why are you concerned with other people? Be concerned with yourself. When did you come across the people? If there’s no awakening, what about the people? If tomorrow there is no awakening in the body, who will talk about the people? This is a wrong concept. Where are the people? If in the early morning there is no awakening, who will talk about the people, Gods and Goddesses? You stick with your Selfless Self. Don’t think about the people, forget about people. Who are the people? If there is no consciousness in the body, who will talk about the people?

Q: I am able to perceive you physically. Eyes are seeing. Then why…

Maharaj: Eyes can’t see. If there’s no Presence, the eye is not seeing. This is a dead body. This is a dead body; how can you say—

Q: —that identification is happening…

Maharaj: These are the words—’identification’, ‘knowingness’, ‘seer’, etc. —these are the words. Through various words, try to identify yourself. You’re using so many words. We have created language just to understand, just for conversation. Don’t analyze each and every word. I’m always telling you, always advising you, not to analyze my words. What I want to convey, that is most important. Not to talk about the people and all—where are all the people? If there’s no awakening in the morning, who will talk about the people? (Maharaj quotes in Marathi). You are the witness of the world. If the Witnesser is absent within your body, who will talk about the people? No people are there, no God is there. And just to know the Reality, therefore you are to undergo the meditation. You are unconcerned with the people—what are the people? In a dream, are you talking about the dream people? When you are having a dream, you see so many people. After awakening, what has happened to those people? Will they go to hell or heaven? Nothing. This is a long dream.

Q: So, if in this dream I start meditating to understand (inaudible) the Reality, what happens if before reaching the destination I leave—

Maharaj: Not to reach anywhere. You are there and there only. There’s no destination—you are the final destination.

Q: But if before having that Conviction—

Maharaj: There’s no before and no after. Your Presence is Ultimate Truth.

Q: So before having that Conviction, if I leave the body, then what happens?

Maharaj: Nothing has happened. In a dream, if you leave the body, what will happen to the body? It’s a dead body. That is a concept, an intellectual concept. Your question is an intellectual question. Where were your intellects prior to beingness? Prior to beingness have you got any thought, “What will happen to my body?” Have you decided, “I will come to India and I will take birth in India”? After leaving the body, which body will you take the form of? No form—you’re basically formless. No birth is there. Because, some or other way, there is the concept ‘I am somebody else’. Questions are coming out of ‘I am somebody else’. You’re nobody, you’re everybody. Your Presence is just like space or sky. So therefore, to dissolve illusory concepts you have to undergo the meditation. Otherwise this question is bound to prick you.

Q: (Inaudible) if I leave my body?

Maharaj: How can you experience leaving your body? Have you got any experience of your birth? Are you having any experience of death? This is an intellectual question. Mind is playing with you. “I’ll leave my body”—have you got any experience of leaving the body? Not at all. There’s no birth, no death.

Q: So, there isn’t (inaudible) reincarnation?

Maharaj: Nothing is there. That concept is wrapped upon you. No birth, no death, you’re basically formless. This form is not going to remain constantly.

Q: So, this is a dream. The dream may—

Maharaj: This is a long dream, this is a long dream. And just to identify, just to know the Reality, you have to undergo meditation. So, this question is going to prick you all the time. Don’t measure yourself in body-form. So far, you’re measuring yourself in body-form and therefore all questions arise. You are not the body, you were not the body, you’re not going to remain the body. “I’m dying—what will happen after my death?” This is all guessing. Intellectual questions. No death is there, no birth is there. Every day you see different dreams. What has happened to those people?

So, like that, you have to identify yourself. You must have Spontaneous Conviction. It will happen, definitely it will happen. And for which, instead of analyzing the words, try to understand yourself. These are the words. Because with various words I am trying to convince the Invisible Listener within you that you are Ultimate Truth. Does sky have any birth and death? Indian sky is having birth or dying? Sky is sky everywhere. You are subtler than sky. So far you are considering yourself in body form, and therefore all concepts are there. You’re talking about so many people. After leaving the body what will happen to those people? Prior to beingness have you seen anybody of all of this? After leaving the body does anybody remain? (Maharaj quotes Kabir in Hindi)

Q: At the time of death, (inaudible) meditation?

Maharaj: At the time of leaving the body, there should not be any concept of ‘I am dying’. (Maharaj quotes Tukaram in Marathi)—Why is he insisting? Because the last moment before death, that particular point, that particular moment, there should not be the feeling that ‘I am dying’. And this is a fact, even if you think intellectually: The body is not your permanent identity. Some or other day, willingly or unwillingly, you have to leave the body. So, who is listening from the body? Who is talking from the body? Who is watching the world? And therefore, the entire world is projected out of our Presence. If there is no Presence in the body, what is the value of the body? Nothing. If the Questioner is not there, what is the question? No questions are there. So, all replies you’ll get from inside, within you, because your inner Master is very strong. And through this meditation, your inner Master will emerge. It is called ‘Atman-Nivedanam Bhakti’—’final devotion’, ‘ninth devotion’—when you dialogue within yourself with your Self. Because, you see, you are the base of this world.

So, read the books, but try to find out the Reader’s identity. There are so many concepts around us. And we’re a victim of all this vicious circle. Come out of that. And meditation is playing a very good part.

It’s open fact, what you see is the Seer’s reflection. If the Seer is not there, who will talk about the people? Seer means Ultimate Truth, Final Truth, that you are. But all the time we’re measuring, counting our self, in body form, and therefore we are unaware of our identity. Who is talking from this body and who is listening from that body is one and the same. Bodies are different, but the principle is one and the same, Spirit is one. No disciple, no Master. No God, no devotee. All these concepts are in the circle of body-knowledge. If there’s no body, how can you identify yourself? This is a combination of body and Presence. Just like if you click a matchbox and stick, you see fire. Only the stick and matchbox alone cannot produce fire, it’s a combination. Similarly, the body can’t act independently, Spirit can’t act independently, it’s a combination of body and Spirit. The moment the Spirit touched with the body you say ‘I’. Prior to that your Presence is there. That means except your Selfless Self, there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, no Master.

It’s very simple spirituality. But the impact of so many concepts, ‘I’m somebody else’, ‘I’m a man or woman’, ‘I’m Master’, ‘I’m disciple’, ‘I’m devotee’—all these concepts are there. You’re Final Truth, you’re Ultimate Truth. Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master is not separate from you. But all the time you’re counting yourself in body form, and therefore you’re expecting, “Oh God, bless me, do something, do some favor for me, put your hand on my head.” Why? You’re not a beggar. Why do this? Master has given you full authority. Therefore, Nisargadatta Maharaj says, “I’m not making you a disciple I’m making you a Master.” Because basically you are a Master. (Maharaj quotes in Marathi): You are the architect of your own life.

Because you forgot your identity, therefore we are giving you some words for meditation. Through meditation you are hammering yourself, “I am Brahman, Brahman I am. I am Brahman, Brahman I am”. And at the advanced stage, meditation is also illusion. But it is necessary. Just like you are removing one thorn using another thorn, hmm? (Maharaj quotes in Marathi): To remove one illusion you have to take the help of another illusion. After having Conviction there is no necessity of anything.

There’s nothing wrong with you. You forgot your identity. So what are we doing? We’re trying to invite the attention of the Invisible Listener within you that you are Ultimate Truth. Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master is not separate from you. We’re repeatedly advising you: Be with you all the time. And therefore, meditation is the first step. Only reading so many books, you’ll collect a lot of information. Be practical. It’s very simple, there’s no restriction. You’re already free. (Maharaj quotes in Marathi): You’re already free. You want liberation— what liberation? You’re already free. You can walk on your own feet. Only a lack of courage is there. Have some spiritual courage, “No, I can do it”. See all these saintly people have the same Spirit (Maharaj refers to the pictures of the lineage Masters). What their master’s said, they accepted it. When their master’s said, “You are Ultimate Truth. You are Brahman, Atman,” they accepted it. And for which you must have strong faith within you, and strong faith within your Master. After knowing the Reality there should not be any temptation to go anywhere. Changing Masters—what to do with all this changing master’s and all these things? Because you are Master of your own. The Master is not separate from you, but you are underestimating yourself. Not to count the Master in body-form—it’s formless.

So be strong. Have some courage to accept the Reality. And meditation is giving you some courage to accept the Reality. Many times questions are asked, “Which time is good for meditation?” Particularly early morning is good for meditation, and when you’re going for sleep is a good time for meditation.

Q: (inaudible)

Maharaj: Yeah, yeah, all the time you can recite the Mantra. When you’re sitting for meditation, we’re asking you to “practice the Mantra like this”. (Inaudible). Thereafter it’s not necessary afterwards. But all the time you can recite the Mantra. It’s most important. When you’re sitting for meditation, sit in this fashion. If you’re not getting sufficient time for meditation, you can recite the Mantra, no problem.

Q: While reciting the Mantra, if thoughts come should we stop the thoughts?

Maharaj: Thoughts will be dissolved automatically. With the power of the Mantra… In the beginning your mind is creating… Mind means the manufacturing of thoughts. Mind, ego, intellect came along with the body only. Thoughts are coming because we are considering ourselves in body-form. There will be the thoughtless stage after knowing the Reality, after having the Conviction.

Thoughts are coming, don’t struggle with the thoughts. Don’t struggle with the mind. It’s the nature of the mind, producing various thoughts. The thoughts which are useful you can accept, otherwise forget it. Be Master of your mind, ego, intellect. Previously we were slaves of our mind, now you’ve become Master of your mind. Try to go against your mind.

Q: Maharaj, there is detachment, but sometimes there appears a little bit of depression. So, “I don’t care, I don’t care”—

Maharaj: I’ll tell you, in the beginning while you are meditating, some depression, nervousness, appears. That means it is affecting. Some vibrations are being created. Some wrong things are going out. It is called spiritual purification. In the beginning we are complaining that depressions is there, bad thoughts are coming, some nervousness is coming. That means the Mantra is working inside. Suppose when you’re taking medicine—there are some medicines, particularly homoeopathic medicine—when you’re taking medicine something is going outside. Some effects are there. So, the doctor says, “Don’t worry about it. The medicine is acting.” After the entire thing is drained, then you’ll get pleasantness, blissfulness. So, in the beginning it happens. So, don’t be nervous, don’t be discouraged. It’s the nature of the mind. You’re beyond mind. In Ultimate Truth there’s no mind, no intellect, no ego. These are functioning organs. So not to use excessively. They’re not bad—mind, ego, intellect is not bad. Use them when necessary. Just like pickle, you know? You’re using pickle for taste only. If you’re using so much, then it will increase blood pressure. Anything in excess will be poison.

Q: Maharaj, is it okay, while in the process, to not have interest in having more knowledge like reading books (inaudible).

Maharaj: There’s no more knowledge, there’s no less knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge. Knowledge means just to identify yourself in a real sense. Knowledge means just to identify yourself in a real sense. We’re identifying ourselves in body-form and that is illusion. What you see is illusion, through which you see is Reality. This is the Seer’s reflection. If there is no Seer, how can you talk about the world? Nothing is there.

In a dream you see so many things. You see temples, you see oceans are there, sky is there, so many things are there. So many people are there also. After awakening, what happens to all those people? You see good dreams and bad dreams. You’re witnessing those dreams? The ultimate stage is where all experience and experiencer dissolves or disappears. The ultimate stage means where all experience and experiencer disappear. Witnessing and witnesser disappears. There you are. No experience and no experiencer. No witnessing, no witnesser. It’s the ultimate stage, final stage. Last destination, last terminal. And therefore, don’t count yourself in body-form. It’s fact, you’re not the body at all. You’re formless, you’re omnipresent. Everywhere your Presence is there just like space or sky.

Not to give so much importance to your thoughts. Not to struggle with your mind. Okay, intellects are there, mind is there, for your routine life. Be strong. There’s nothing wrong with you. Some body effect is there. And don’t think about other people, forget it. The entire world is an illusory world. Shankara says, (Maharaj quotes in Marathi). Shankaracharya says, “To say ‘I’ is illusion, to say ‘you’ is illusion, to say ‘Brahman’ is illusion—the entire world is illusion.”

Nothing has happened, and nothing is going to happen. All happening is within this illusory dream. (Maharaj quotes in Marathi): If there’s no root, where are the branches? What happens is that directly or indirectly we are considering that this world is true, and that ‘what I see is reality’. “My father, my mother, my sister, my wife, my Master,”—all these relations are body-based relations. Prior to beingness where are all these relations? Any father was there? Any mother was there? Any sister was there? Any God was there? Master is there? Devotee is there? Nothing was there. Everything came out of nothing and everything dissolves within nothing—because you’re everything.

Meditation is giving you power, courage to accept the Reality. You have to be sincere, there’s no condition. You have to follow it sincerely. There should not be any dual-mind. There should not be any temptation to go anywhere. Because, your Invisible Presence is the base of this world. Why is there temptation? Because you’re considering yourself in body-form. Who is holding this body? Who is listening from this body? That Invisible Presence is called Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master.
And therefore, the basic is meditation. Only dry discussion will not help you. Only reading will not help you. Be practical. For which you have to spend some time for you only. There’s not any condition. Not to spend a single penny. No garlands are required. No namaskar required also. Bow down to your Self. You’re not giving importance to your Self.

Okay.

Sri Ramakant Maharaj