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Q: If all of us are Brahmans, the Brahma itself, is that correct? That’s the premise? Is that we are all…

Maharaj: It’s a fact! You’re measuring yourself in body-form! Bodies are different, bodies are different…

Q: No problem, so that’s the premise. So the question that is begged is: why is one Brahma willing to harm another Brahma if we are one and the same?

Maharaj: Because it is body-based knowledge.  Brahma is not harming anything. Is the sky harming any sky? American sky is harming some Indian sky?  Sky doesn’t know ‘I am sky’, Presence doesn’t know ‘I am Presence,’ Brahman does not know ‘I am Brahman’. Brahman is a word given to that Ultimate Truth that you are. The Invisible Listener within you is Ultimate Truth, it is called Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master. It is not an individual, there’s no duality at all.

Q: So then can one say that it’s okay for this Brahman to harm this Brahman?

Maharaj: No, no, no “Okay I am Brahman I will harm another Brahman”, there’s no two different Brahman.

Q: Okay, so it’s one Brahman, right, but bodies, there are two separate bodies. If I harm this body in some way do I just turn around and say it’s okay because we’re all one and the same?

Maharaj: Egoistic concepts are there, ‘I am somebody else’. That ‘somebody’ is supposed to be dissolved. Brahman is not harming anybody else.

Q: But if harm should happen, which you, I think, said earlier, was that nothing is really being done, no deeds are being done, ultimately.

Maharaj: There’s no doer there’s no deed. So far we’re measuring ourselves in body-form, all these concepts appear. I’m talking about that invisible Presence within you, where nothing is there, no thoughts are there, no concepts are there.  The concept ‘Brahman’ is also not there. And as I told, the name ‘Brahman’ is given to that Ultimate Truth. Except your Selfless Self there is no Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master. So Brahman is not harming some other, “this Brahman is different, this Brahman is different”.

Q: Okay, so in other words, what you do to others you’re doing to yourself, right?

Maharaj: So far you’re considering yourself in body-form these concepts appear. No other is there. Because we are measuring in body-form, therefore ‘he’ is there, ‘he’, ‘she’, ‘it’ is there, and all concepts appear. Prior to beingness any of these things are there? Prior beingness or after leaving the body, are you finding any different things?

Q: So, somebody who does do harm to another…

Maharaj: When did you come across with somebody? Prior to beingness who ‘somebody’ was there?

After leaving body any ‘somebody’ is there?

Q: …body, body, if this body harms…

Maharaj: (Smiling) I’m shouting…I’m shouting at you…because you’re measuring yourself in body-form therefore you say different bodies are there. Different houses are there, sky is one. This is called a bungalow, this is a cottage, something, something, names are given. If all the houses collapse what happens to the sky? Is it going to hell or heaven? And therefore I’m telling you not to measure yourself in body-form, it’s the basic thing. Since we are measuring ourselves in body-form, so many concepts appear.  Bodies are different. After one hundred years what will happen to all these bodies? Even if you think intellectually – how were you prior to one hundred years, you say “I don’t know”, your answer will be: “I don’t know”. How are you after one hundred years – “I don’t know”.  ‘I don’t know’ means “I’m not in any form, not in any shape”. As I told some of you: You’re alone in the house, and somebody knocks on the door “Anybody there?”,  you say “Nobody’s there”. Correct? You want to say “I am here, except myself nobody’s there”, that’s the only thing.  Except your Selfless Self, nothing is there.

And therefore I am insisting on meditation. Meditation means concentration, full involvement. For which there are no restrictions, no bondage is there. This is the base, foundation. Because only listening is meaningless, it is a temporary relief, painkillers. Temporary intoxication.

The human body is an opportunity for you to identify yourself. Every moment is very important, it’s valuable. Complete concentration, complete involvement is most important.  We’re not accepting it. Everybody knows ‘I am not body at all’, everybody knows. Some or other day, willingly or unwillingly we are to leave this body, what remains?

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Because you’re Master of mind! So far mind was dictating us “do this thing, do that thing”, now we are dictating to the mind.  It can happen.  Mind, ego, intellect, these are only functioning organs. And after having Conviction you will be thoughtless, no thoughts will be there. And therefore for which, again I am repeating, meditation is the base, the foundation, which you are neglecting, you are not knowing.

Yes?

Q: Maharaj, why are we so scared to find this Ultimate Truth?

Maharaj: Not like that. Because we are having so many concepts engraved upon us we are having some strong concepts: ‘I am somebody else’, ‘man’ or ‘woman’.  And to dissolve all these concepts, again, you have to undergo the meditation. After having the Conviction that ‘I am not the body at all, I was not the body at all, I’m not going to remain the body at all, I am unborn, death and birth are connected with the body only, all desires are connected with the body only”.  You are beyond that.  So there won’t be any depression, there won’t be any negative thoughts.  It is not your fault.  Because since childhood till today we’ve had a long association with the body, thousands of concepts have been engraved upon us. And we are trying to live within the circle of those concepts, we are having some limitation. Our thinking process is also within the circle of limitation, ‘I am somebody else’, ‘I am a man or woman, somebody else’.

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Q:  Could you please say something about any practice that is silent, without words, that supports the  aware Presence in recognizing itself?

Maharaj: After having Conviction, silence will be there, spontaneous silence is there. Therefore I am insisting on meditation.  Because, there is no silence because we are having so many concepts, body-based concepts. Directly or indirectly we’ve become a victim of our mind, ego, intellect. For which you have to identify yourself in a real sense. It’s fact, forget about spirituality.  You were not the body at all, you’re not the body, you’re not going to remain the body, the body is not your identity at all.  Even if you think intellectually, it’s open fact. What is the value of this body?  If there is no Presence for a moment, what is the value of this body? Nothing. And therefore I am insisting on meditation all the time, involvement. Considering the sensitivity of the Spirit or Presence, the words are given ‘Soham’ or some ‘Aham Brahmasmi’, ‘Sivoham, these are the words. Key-words, you see, key-words.

Q: Maharaj?

Maharaj: Yes?

Q: Naam (inaudible) should be recited continuously at all times once one has received initiation?

Maharaj: You have to recite  the Naam Mantra all the time continuously, at any moment. You need not sit all the time here like this (Maharaj pretends to meditate). You do your job, do your duties, no restrictions, no bondage is there. What you are doing, whatever you are doing, you recite the Mantra, the Naam Mantra, ‘Aham Brahmasmi’, ‘Brahman I am, Brahman’, like that.

Q: And it will still the mind so that the mind is not all over the place all the time.

Maharaj: Mind is always pricking from the backside. When you’re concentrating on the Mantra, concentrating on ‘Brahman’, it’s a kind of cleaning process. Mind will not allow you to concentrate on yourself. Mind is nothing but the flow of thoughts. We are giving importance to the mind – there’s no mind at all, no mind, ego, intellect. They came along with the body only, they appeared upon your Presence. If your Presence is not there, where is the mind, ego, intellect? But directly or indirectly we are becoming victims of the mind, ego, intellect. We are giving so much importance to mind, ego, intellects: “Not to go against my mind”.

Q: Maharaj?

Maharaj: Yes?

Q: May I ask another question?

Maharaj: Yes, yes, ask a question.

Q: I (inaudible) with Vipassana meditation, which does not involve mantras, it is basically observing your breath, observing your body sensations. What are your thoughts on that?

Maharaj: This is a temporary relief. ‘Vipassana’, so many concepts are there. Temporary relief. So far you are doing Vipassana for a time, one week, two week, one month, after leaving the Vipassana again you come to the same place.

Q:  But what if you practice Vipassana everyday? I mean, what are your thoughts on Vipassana versus…

Maharaj: The Principle behind Vipassana or any practice is just do identify yourself in a real sense. Whatever practice you are doing, is just for the principle that you identify yourself in a real sense. This is only a process: Vipassana is a process, meditation is also a process. But meditation is a strong process through which you can identify yourself as early as possible.

Q: But in Vipassana meditation there is no mantra…

Maharaj: You (go ahead and) do Vipassana meditation, but you are posing yourself in body-form and then doing some Vipassana meditation, so it is meaningless. “I am somebody else, I’m doing Vipassana meditation”, it is egoistic meditation. You are to forget your body-identity. “I am doing some sadhana, I am doing some meditation” – that ‘I’ is supposed to be dissolved, for which meditation is there. Through meditation you are inviting the attention of the Invisible Meditator within you that you are Ultimate Truth, you are Final Truth. Non-stop hammering yourself. At the advanced stage, meditation is no longer required. After having Conviction, no meditation is required. Meditation is only a process for the time being., till you’ve got Conviction, Spontaneous Conviction.

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Q: The ‘I am’ wants, Keith wants peacefulness…

Maharaj: That ‘I am’ concept appeared upon your Presence. If your Presence is not there who will have anything to say about ‘I am’. To say ‘I am’ that Invisible Presence, Power, Energy, is required. If there’s no Presence inside, a dead body can’t say ‘I am’.

Q: Correct, yeah.

Maharaj: Correct. To see this world, if the seer is not there, what is the use of the seen? The entire seen is reflected out of your Presence. The entire seen is reflected out of your Presence, Spontaneous Presence. To say something your Presence is required. I’ve given the name ‘Presence’. To identify something you have to give some name – ‘Brahman’, ‘Atman’, Paramatman’, ‘God’, ‘Master’ – these are the names given to the Supernatural Power within you. I’m inviting the attention of the Invisible Listener within you that is called Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, Master, that it is not separate from you. No to underestimate you. You have great power, you’ve got tremendous power. But all the time we are measuring ourself in body-form and that is illusion. It’s not your fault. Because of long association with the body we’ve got so much attraction, we’ve become one with the body. Whatever happens we accept it: “I’m somebody else”.

You are Ultimate Truth, it’s fact. You are unborn. Birth and death are connected with the body-knowledge only, not to you. But we’re not accepting the facts. And therefore some involvement is required. Not to torture your body. Why torture the body for knowing your Self? The thing which is already within you, why to torture it? Give some time, some involvement is required: “Yes, I want to know myself! Who am I?”, you’ll get courage. “If I am not the body, who am I?”, ask the question. That question is supposed to be solved within you only.

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Q: If one is no longer identified with the body, and knows what they are, will they no longer feel the pain and the fear about the world?

Maharaj: Therefore you are to undergo the meditation. Fear because we are developing body-concepts. What is the fear?

Q: I mean, responsibility for acting in the world…

Maharaj: Okay. Yes, yes, of course. You’ll get courage out of spirituality. After having Identification, you’ll get the courage how to live your family life, your routine life. For which spirituality is there. Because directly or indirectly, our mind is pricking from the backside. The mind, ego, intellect is pricking from the backside. When you’re getting very close, closer and closer to the Selfless Self, the mind and ego are pricking from the backside, trying to distract you from the Reality. You have to be alert. Particularly in meditation, some negative concepts are appearing, some negative atmosphere appears. Be firm with you, you know the Reality. It’s the nature of the mind. Mind, ego, intellect appeared upon your Presence. Your Spontaneous Invisible Presence is supplying power to the mind, ego, intellect. Not to become a victim of the mind, ego, intellect, you can use them. You’re no longer a slave of the mind, ego, intellect, you’re Master of the mind, ego, intellect, you can control it. You know good thoughts and bad thoughts are appearing, it’s their nature. Thoughts which are to be accepted, thoughts which are not to be accepted is up to you, you’re Master of thoughts. Not to give cognisance to any egoistic thoughts or illusory thoughts. Thoughts are appearing, it’s their nature. Good thoughts appearing, bad thoughts appearing. They are clouds, coming and going. You are there and there only.

Have the Conviction that the body is not your identity at all. Where were the depressions prior to beingness? After leaving the body, any depression is there? It’s a fact, some day or other, willingly or unwillingly, we have to leave this body. It’s a dead body. What is the value of this body? Because of your Spontaneous Presence you say ‘I’. To say ‘I’ your Presence is required. Without Presence, what is the value of the body? – “take it away, take it away”. To see this world the seer is required.

So, you are the central point. You are the source of all this world. To say ‘this world’, to say ‘God’, the identification given by the Presence is required. If there’s no Presence who will talk about the world, who will talk about all relations?

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So today, if you want to ask any questions, you can ask questions, not to hesitate. Okay, does anybody have any questions?

Yes, yes.

Q: I’ve been taught that the Vedic understanding of the evolution of consciousness…first we have to understand who we are, the unbounded Awareness, and then the perception over time refines to perceive finer and finer levels of creation until one perceives the Infinite. In all of creation (inaudible) sees that, is no different than that which I am. Is this a sequence that happens over time, or can it happen all at once?

Maharaj: Nothing is happening. This is the Spontaneous Projection of your Ultimate Truth. Nothing has happened, and nothing’s going to happen. You are not the doer, there’s no deed at all. So, not to measure yourself in body-form. So far we are measuring ourselves in body-form, and that is illusion. So many questions are raised, appear upon your Presence. Try to identify that Invisible Presence within you. You are not the body, there’s no shape, there’s no nothing…You’re formless, you’re unborn! How were you prior to beingness? After leaving the body, any question remains? No. What is the value of this knowledge? Knowledge means just to identify oneself in a real sense. We’re identifying ourself in body-form and that is illusion, it’s a simple thing.

There are so many books on spirituality, and so many Masters also. We’re not here to analyze the words of the Masters, the spiritual words. What was the message they gave, that is most important, the conclusion of all spiritual knowledge. This one sentence: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, no Master. This is the one message given in all spirituality.

To have Conviction, to absorb this knowledge, you have to undergo the basics of meditation. There isn’t any other source. Question, counter-question, analyzation, it’s okay.

Yes?

Q2: Is there any specific way to do meditation?

Maharaj: Meditation just means concentration and involvement. Not sitting like this: ‘Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram…’, not like this. Try to identify who is acting within this body. Just sit, calm and quiet, to see what’s happening. Who is witnessing the thoughts? Who is watching the dream? Who is that? It’s not the body at all. It’s called Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, the name given to the Supernatural Power.

Q2: So, meditating…

Maharaj: Meditation means just to identify yourself. Invite the attention of the Invisible Meditator within you that you are Brahman! Except your Self, nothing is there.

Whatever knowledge we’re having is body-based knowledge. This is a food-body, it’s not going to remain constant. There are stages: you’re a child, then grown up as young man, then you become an old man, and some or other day, willingly or unwillingly you have to leave the body! What remains? After leaving the body, what remains? Nothing. So everything came out of nothing and dissolves back into nothing. What remains? How were you prior to beingness? “I don’t know”. After leaving the body? “I don’t know”. ‘I don’t know’ means that in a negative thought, a positive concept, a positive Reality is there. “I’m not in any form, I’m formless, I’m shapeless. My Presence is there, just like sky or space: everywhere”.

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You can ask any question. If you’ve got any doubts, ask about the doubts. (Inaudible) Yes?

Q: In the book (Selfless Self), Maharaj, you say “Be how you were prior to beingness”. In the practical world, how do you do that?

Maharaj: Just think intellectually:  how were you prior to beingness, and after leaving the body? Is this body Reality? This body is Reality? After some time we have to leave this body, so what is the use of knowledge? Knowledge means just to identify oneself in a real sense. We’re measuring ourselves all the time in body-form. You’re formless, you’re shapeless, it’s fact. The moment the Presence clicked with the body you say ‘I’. So many illusory concepts are wrapped up on us. We’ve accepted these concepts blindly. And for which, again I’m repeating, only the meditation.

Through meditation everything will be clear within you. When I say meditation is the anti-virus software, it means all the viruses will be cleared. And again I’m repeating: nothing is impossible. You need not depend upon anybody else, even me also. Therefore Nisargadatta Maharaj says: “I’m not making you a disciple, I’m making you a Master”, because that Masterly essence is within you. Master is not separate from you. Some confusion is there because of the body-based knowledge. This is a food-body. For which strong devotion is required in the beginning: “I can do it! I know the Reality. I am the Source of this world, the entire world is projected out of me.” This is not an egoistic thought, it’s a fact. If there’s no Presence who will talk about the world, who will talk about the God? And with this all illusory concepts will be dissolved and the six symptoms will appear within you. ‘Shama’, ‘Dama’, means: complete silence, peacefulness, whatever happens, whatever you do, “It’s okay”. Since you are holding the body some things will happen against you also. There will be unpleasant atmospheres, just like clouds are coming, coming and going. You are there and there only.

Yes?

Q: Sometimes in the meditation, I have this fear. I don’t what fear it is, but I have some kind of fear. Why is that?

Maharaj: Because of the pressure of concepts, illusory concepts. Directly or indirectly we’ve accepted the body as our identity. Directly or indirectly we’ve accepted body as our identity, therefore fear is there. Where was that fear prior to beingness? After leaving the body, any fear is there? Is a dead body having any fear? No fear is there.

See, the Spirit would like to survive for a longer time because of the body only. Spirit does not know ‘I am Presence’, and Presence does not know ‘I am Spirit’ or ‘Presence’,just like sky does not know ‘I am sky’.

Yes?

Q: Dear Maharaj, first of all I’d like to show my respect for you, I was coming here a little bit late, so apologies. But I want to say that I no longer have any more questions. I want to thank you for helping me develop the conviction with the identification with Presence.

Maharaj: So, nothing is impossible, I repeat: nothing is impossible for you. Just a lack of courage is there: “how can it happen?”. Siddharameshwar Maharaj says: “You come step forward, and I’ll lift you another step. Put your step ahead, and I’ll lift you another step.” It means: be (move) forward, come. Okay, what has happened, forget it. Now you know the Reality, why not to accept the Reality? Reality is not separate from you.

Q: Sri Ramakant, there’s a seeing that’s very peaceful and there’s a seeing where things lose their substance, but it’s so peaceful, so peaceful. But sometimes underlying that there’s a fear of losing the attachments, the emotional attachments that we have, when people around you are saying “you don’t care about me if you’re not worried about me”, you know? You know, the way love is being taught, and somehow there’s a little part there that’s afraid of losing that attachment. But like you said, Selfless Self feels peace, and it’s seeing is peace. Does it take time to kind of like, move out of that fear where you loosen that old way of seeing things?

Maharaj: What happens is that concepts are taking possession of your body. When there’s no alertness, no awareness, then concepts are taking possession of your body and fear will be there. And therefore meditation and reciting the Mantra, etc., etc.,and meditation are required, because all the time you are reminding yourself. So no fear will be there.

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Anybody having any questions? Yes?

Q: In your book you said “Be yourself and everything is okay”. How do you be yourself?

Maharaj: Yes, it’s fact! Because you’ve accepted body-knowledge. Yourself means Selfless Self, through which you are talking just now, you are identifying some concepts. Self is not separate from you. Name is given :’yourself’, ‘myself’, ‘yourself’, these are names given. It is Selfless Self. These are only words. There are so many Masters saying things in different ways. Instead of analyzing the words of all the Masters, what did they want to convey, that is most important. What did they want to convey? After reading so many books, what message were they giving? They’re giving the message: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, no Master. That’s the gist of spirituality. Remember this: except your Selfless Self there is no God, no Brahman, no Atman, no Paramatman, no Master! It is a fact! Be bold, have some courage to accept the Reality! And you’ll find a dramatic change will take place, just like I told you all the six symptoms will appear within you. When you are getting some irritation, some violence, there will be complete silence, complete silence, peacefulness. You’ll have some tolerance also. No attraction of the world – why(be attracted to the world)? This can happen. The only thing you have to do is devote some time for you, not for any Brahman, Atman, Paramatman, God, or Master. You spend some time, you’re not required to pay a single penny for that. This is free of charge, knowledge is free of charge. But things which you are getting free of charge have no value. If someone is charging five thousand dollars or something you say “Oh, he’s a great Master”.

One person came to me who had a Hatha Yogi Master. His Master charged him five lakhs rupees in foreign currency – why? He cut his ear and something, something. Why is this required? Some different clothes are there, some garlands are there, so many things are there. They are decorating the body. Why are they decorating the body? When you came across this world, did you come with a decorated body? I’m not criticizing, this happens. Because we depend upon somebody else. We’re not trying to know ourself: “Who am I?”, the main question. That question will be solved within you only, because you are the source of this identity. Therefore I define it as ‘Unidentified’, ‘Invisible’, ‘Anonymous’ Identity. There’s no name, you can’t guess. Say I’m talking about something, that Invisible Listener is listening, some flow of thoughts are there. You’re witnessing that thought – who is that? And therefore I told you: be with you. Because your Presence is Ultimate Truth.

Don’t accept illusory thoughts. Thoughts are flowing, why to struggle with the thoughts? We are struggling with the thoughts: “Why this, why this?”. Okay, it’s the nature of the body.

Q: But that’s difficult…

Maharaj: Why difficult? You can identify thoughts. The things which we do not accept, forget it. If dishes are given to you, so many things are there, you say “I don’t want this, I don’t want this, I want this food only”, correct? Not to flow along with the thoughts. This can happen through meditation. Give some time for you. Only reading books, listening from anybody else, no. Listen to your own voice, inner voice. This will happen if we’re calm and quiet.

Who is witnessing the thoughts inside?

Q: But how do you know the inner voice that you sit there and hear, the inner voice, how do you know it’s not from your body though?

Maharaj: The body is only the media. You’re witnessing thoughts, you know? You’re witnessing the dream, you’re watching the dream, you know? Who is watching the dream? You are asleep, the body can’t watch. Who has created the dream world? Have you decided “today I’ll see this dream, tomorrow I’ll see that dream”?. You see the sky, the oceans, so many things, you see the Gods, so many things. Who has created the dream world? Similarly, the Presence clicked with the body and you see the dream-world. The body is not creating any dream. The combination of Presence and the body, just like the combination of the matchbox and the stick: they click each other and you see the fire. Fire is everywhere. Just like the five elements are everywhere. American water is not separate from the Indian water, hm? The sky is different from American sky and Indian sky? Because there are different bodies we see ‘this one’, ‘this one’. Presence is one.

After having this Conviction, all concepts will dissolve. There are so many concepts engraved upon us: ‘there’s a God’, ‘you’re going to die’, ‘last birth’, ‘future birth’, ‘hell’, ‘heaven’, what are these things? Who knows ‘hell’ and ‘heaven’? We don’t about this present birth, why are we talking about an earlier birth? We’re talking about ‘sin’, ‘virtue’ and all these things.

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Q4: What next?

Maharaj: No next is there. No next is there, nothing is there. Does sky have any nature of ‘earlier’? Think about it. You’re Presence is just like sky or space. Like the five elements, it’s everywhere. Mind, ego, intellect, these concepts appeared upon your Presence. I’m inviting the attention of that Presence through which you are saying “My mind, my ego, my intellect”, all relations, all requirements, needs –  who wants all these things? Prior to beingness where is that mind? No ego, no intellect prior to beingness. How were you prior to beingness? You say “I don’t know”. ‘I don’t know’ is the correct answer.

So in various ways, I’m placing before you some words in various way. Try to identify the principle behind that. This is not dry spiritual knowledge, it is the Listener’s Truth. The Listener is Ultimate, it’s the last destination, the last terminal. You’re not required to go any where or do any excercise, not to torture your body. Be simple, be normal, the Absolute is within you.

Not to make any deliberate effort. What you have been told, try to absorb, try to digest it. We’re having so many questions, body-based questions. Directly or indirectly we’re having the conviction: ‘I am somebody else’ – that ‘somebody else’ is supposed to dissolve. You’re everybody, not somebody. Your Presence is everywhere, just like space or sky. You’re not limited to the body. The body is an external cover. You can use your body, just like these clothes: we’re cleaning clothes, we’re taking care of the clothes.

It’s open fact. Your sadhana is in the beginning stage only. No sadhana is required after having Conviction. Sadhana, meditation: it’s okay in the beginning. Just like a small baby wants something artificial, an artificial cart to help him walk because he can’t stand on his feet. If now you are given some artificial (walker) you’ll not need it, you’ll say “I’m grown up”. So likewise you have to convince, you have to have a dialogue within your Selfless Self. Your inner Master is very strong. As a matter of fact, there’s no ‘inner Master’, but for understanding we say ‘inner Master’, through which you are identifying the world, through which you see the world, through which you are watching the dreams and all, through which you are experiencing all the thoughts. That hidden secret will be open through meditation only. 

This is a magic box (Maharaj points to his body), this is a magic box, so many things are inside. But all the time we’re neglecting it. We’re having some concept: “Oh, some God is there, He’s administering all the world and all.”, “With His grace I am living on this…” okay. Have some faith within your Selfless Self. Be calm and quiet. Just see what is there! Just glimpses of ‘I’, without any shape or form.