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Prior to beingness you’re unknown to yourself, after leaving the body you’re unknown to yourself, and at present also. This is Unknown, Invisible Identity, Anonymous Identity, Unidentified Identity. Thoughts are flowing, not to struggle with the thoughts – good thoughts, bad thoughts. We’re struggling with the thoughts: “Why are these thoughts coming!”, “I’m meditating all the time, some unpleasant atmosphere is there, depressive thoughts are there, why are they coming?” Okay, you’re experiencing depressive thoughts, bad thoughts or good thoughts. The thoughts which are tolerable you say ‘good thoughts’, the thoughts which are not tolerable you say ‘bad thoughts’. What is not tolerable? The body is not tolerable, body-based knowledge is not tolerable. When there was no body, there was no question of toleration.

And after having Conviction, I told you, people say “How can I identify if I’m realized or not? I’ve got knowledge, spiritual knowledge, how can I identify if I’m realized or not?” Some feeling will be there. As I told you last time: six stages are given by spiritual knowledge, spiritual science. Shama means ‘forgive and forget’. I am giving the example of Jesus Christ, you know? When they were nailing him, what did he say? “Oh God, forgive them, they do not know what they’re doing.” Then ‘Dama’ means tolerance and patience, no irritation, no excitement. It happens spontaneously. Prior to knowledge, suppose for a small matter you’re getting excited, now no excitement. You’ll get spontaneous tolerance, patience. I’m giving the example, in Maharashtra, of Saint Eknath. He was a very calm and quiet Saint. So one person said: “I will make him irritated.”

Every day he (Saint Eknath) went to take a bath near the river. After coming from that bath, he (the person) spit on him. Calmly and quietly he went back to the river. Like this, forty times he spit on him – then he got irritated! And he bowed down to him (Saint Eknath). And what did he (Saint Eknath) say? “Because of you I got to bathe forty times.” This is patience and tolerance. And he (Saint Eknath) invited him to come for lunch with him. Exceptional silence will be there, it happens spontaneously.

And the third thing, ‘Titiksha’, means just to know the Reality. Total involvement, total devotion. And the fourth thing, ‘Uparati’, means you remain untouched with the world. Whatever happens whatever doesn’t happen, you remain untouched with the world. Even though you’re holding the human body, and a good thing happens or a bad thing happens, you’re not concerned. Then devotion (Bhakti), complete faith. This happens after having strong devotion.

The body is an opportunity for us, because we forgot our identity. There are so many concepts: ‘you are born’, ‘last birth’, ‘future birth’, ‘hell or heaven’, ‘karma’, ‘dharma’, so many things are there. Our identity is wrapped up in all these concepts. You have to break the circle of all these concepts.

It is very simple. You are not required to spend a single penny. And if you’re Realized, make others Realized. Siddharameshwar Maharaj says:  “If you’re Realized spread out your carpet and go on talking. Share the knowledge free of charge, not to commercialize it”.

Yes, do you have any questions? Yes, yes.

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Suppose somebody lost his memory. They’re showing something: “See this thing, see this thing.” The purpose behind that is to gain the memories. Same thing here. Because of long association with the body you forgot your identity.

Why is this required? What is the principle, what is the use of this spiritual knowledge in your life? We’re not happy, see. What do we want exactly? We want happiness, peacefulness, tension-free life, fearless life. Material sources are there, but it’s not sufficient. We want money, publicity is there, sex is there, but no happiness. Because there is already inbuilt happiness within you.

It’s open fact. This body is not going to remain constant. It is having stages: you’re a child, you’re a young man, then you’re an old man, and some day, willingly or unwillingly, you are to leave the body. The body is not your identity at all. You’re unborn, basically. No birth, no death. Birth and death are connected with the body-knowledge, and you’re not the body at all. That Conviction is supposed to appear spontaneously, this is the purpose of this spirituality. After having Conviction, there’s is no necessity of spirituality. So in the beginning stage you have to recite the Mantra, your involvement is required. Devote some time for yourself. There are no restrictions, no bondage, not to do for anything, not to spend a single penny for that. But you are to give some time for yourself. Out of twenty-four hours you are giving some time towards your regular responsibilities, but give some for you. Sit for some time, for one hour, half an hour. See what is there! Reality is within you, you are Reality, your Presence is Reality, your Invisible Listener is Reality. Why to go here and there? You don’t need to go to any Master. You forgot your Inner Master. Your Inner Master is very strong. We’re neglecting our Inner Master and we’re visiting so many Masters. It’s not necessary, not to go anywhere. I’m not telling you not to respect anybody, respect all the Masters. The Masters are the forms of Reality. But Reality is not having any form, any shape.

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I will tell you another aspect of this knowledge. In the process of your meditation, involvement, strong meditation, strong involvement, strong devotion, sometimes we come across with some miraculous experiences. They may be positive or negative miraculous experiences. And I’m giving you the example of Nisargadatta Maharaj – it will be more focused.

Nisargadatta Maharaj, at the early stage, was very rich – he had eight to ten shops. His finances were very good when, in 1933-something, he came across Siddharameshwar Maharaj. One of his friends took him to Siddharameshwar Maharaj. He said, at that time, that “I’m not believing in any body-based Sage or Saint, I’m not going to bow down to him.” But he went there and listened to him, and there was a miraculous change in him. The base was (already) there. He was so much impressed, deeply impressed, and he bowed down to him spontaneously. Then he was having association with Siddharameshwar Maharaj for about three years, three and a half.

Why I’m quoting the experience of Nisargadatta Maharaj is so that it will give more focus to your devotional life.

So then, after about 1939, he left his family life and he went to have the experience of the spiritual world or spiritual experience. He faced so many problems, unbearable problems. He left his family life, he left everything. He had about ten shops, apartment tenants, a tobacco shop and all these things, but he wanted to have the experience of this spiritual knowledge. And he faced so many negative experiences: no money, nothing is there, wandering, wandering here and there.

Once he came across with such a barren land, and there was no water, nothing was there. He said it would be the last moment of his life. But in that barren land he saw long in the distance that one cottage was there. I’m talking about some devotional experience that appears when you’re having involvement in spirituality. Though it is not knowledge, not Reality, but you’re coming across such incidents, miraculous incidents. He had seen the cottage, and with great difficulty went to that cottage. One old man was there, and he gave him bread and all, water and everything. After taking some steps, he looked behind him and there was no cottage.

Nisargadatta Maharaj was rarely giving as examples his experiences, miraculous experiences. But I learned from him.

And then he wrote a poem: “My Master became a cottage for me, my Master became food for me, my Master became water for me.”

This happens in everybody’s case. Your Master can take any shape when you’re in difficulty. But you must have strong faith within yourself and with your Master. What happens is that negative and positive experiences during the process of this spiritual knowledge, spirituality, devotion – when you’re having strong devotion and strong involvement in your devotion, then you come across with such types of miraculous, positive or negative experiences.

Negative experiences means that you’re having some negative thoughts, depressive thoughts, some difficulty may be there just like Nisargadatta Maharaj. He faced so many problems in his life – so many problems, beyond imagination. But he did not lose his faith in his Master – his knowledge was very strong, exceptional, firm, total conviction.

There are some positive miraculous experiences also. He rarely said it, but: one time when he was sitting at his shop, he started giving water from his teapot, and some people in long cues were being cured by that water. But Siddharameshwar warned him: “What are you doing? This is not knowledge, not Reality. It’s distracting you from Reality.” So he stopped this.

So in my speech, what I’m telling you is: after having strong devotion you may come across with such negative or positive experiences. It is not knowledge, it is not Reality, it is not Ultimate Truth. But the point is that you might be distracted from the Reality. If you’ve got ego: “Yes, because of me somebody got a miraculous experience.” Suppose you visit some house and something miraculous happens: “Oh, my power is so much!” that ego may develop. So it is a precautionary measure in the process of your devotional spirituality.

So, during your devotion, if you come across such experiences, not to give so much importance. All experience, miraculous experience appears upon your Presence. That Presence, Invisible Presence, Anonymous Presence is Ultimate Truth. There is no value for any miracles. It is the nature of our human body, of the human being. If any miracles happen you bow down: “Oh, you’re a very great man”. Those miracles are within you. You’ve got tremendous power, but not to take ego. Suppose something happens, suppose you visited some places, and some miracles happen and people say: “Oh, because of you something miraculous happened”. Nisargadatta Maharaj was not taking any prestige, not taking any credit. He said: “If it happens, it is because of my Master. I’m not doing any miracles.” He never took ego.

So why I’m inviting your attention is because in your strong devotional life, spiritual life, it may happen. You may call them progressive steps. But not to stop there. Until you’ve got Spontaneous Conviction you’ve got to continuously involve yourself in devotion and spirituality. I’m giving alertness, cautiousness in the process of your devotional life, your spirituality. So, ignore it, it’s not Reality.

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Maharaj: You’ll get some courage, power, energy to tolerate all these things. Not even that, I’m telling you, you’ll overcome all the difficulties of your physical problems also.

I’ll tell you a real story, about Guru Ranade, a devotee, a disciple of Bhausaheb Maharaj, it is fact. In those days, say about one hundred years back, he was suffering from tuberculoses, and in those days it was an incurable disease. Guru Ranade’s mother took him to Bhausaheb Maharaj, and he (Guru Ranade) was really surprised that out of meditation he was completely cured. Really, it is a miracle. Though it is not Reality, it happens, it can happen, because you have tremendous power. What I want to tell you, the principle behind that is: you’ve got tremendous power. Anything can happen. You’ll get courage to tolerate all these body-based concepts, all these body-based physical problems.

And therefore I’m insisting, in the beginning stage, you have to devote some time for meditation, it’s very basic. Only discussion is not sufficient. Now the ball is in your court. But it doesn’t require any conditions, any restrictions, what you’re eating, what you’re doing.

Through meditation you can identify yourself in a real sense. Basically identification is most important. All these concepts appeared upon your Presence.

Q: I have a question.

Maharaj: Yes?

Q: I’m finding the more quiet I get, and the quieter my mind and ego get, that my desire to be of service is the only thing that matters. Money’s not mattering, food’s not mattering, just being of service to others has become a priority. Is that natural progress, or…

Maharaj: What happens is we’re counting ourself, measuring ourself in body-form. So many desires are bound to be there, expectations, needs are bound to be there. So for which, after having strong devotion and meditation, all desires will be dissolved. You remain untouched with the world.

What do we want exactly? In the human life, what do we want? We want happiness, peacefulness, tension-free life, and fearless life. But everybody is having fear of the death. After knowing ‘what is death? Exactly what is death?’ – in deep sleep are you fearing? In deep sleep: “Oh, let me go alone!”, you want deep sleep, no? So like that, why to fear death? There’s no death at all. Prior to beingness have you got any fear?

So to have a fearless life, you have to undergo meditation. Meditation gives you courage to face these things. It is placing before you your Reality. And thereafter, I’ll tell you, meditation is also illusion. Until you’ve got Spontaneous Conviction, meditation is a must. Then meditation will be spontaneous afterwards – that Mantra is going on throughout. It creates a vibration, it’s reminding all the time: “You are Brahman, you are Brahman, you are Brahman”, knocking on the door all the time.

Yes, any questions? It’s very simple. Yes?

Q: Can you be specific about the meditation? When we do meditation, it’s not just like closing our eyes and concentrating, but we have to repeat the Mantra? And another thing is: what kind of thinking we should have when we meditate?

Maharaj: Yes, it’s a good question. I’ve placed before you the Ultimate Truth, the body is not your identity at all. I’m not the body, I was not the body, I’m not going to remain the body, it’s a fact. Through meditation, through involvement, through devotion, you’re reminding all the time to your Selfless Self: you’re not the body at all. And after having continuous involvement and devotion, there will be Spontaneous Conviction.

I’ll give you a simple example. This body is called man, you accept it as a man, you’re dreaming as a man. You’re not saying “I’m a man, I’m a man, I’m a man”, some name is given. That conviction that this body is called man, this body is called woman, we accepted it. So you’re neither woman nor man, you’re Brahman, you’re to accept the Reality. And for which you have to undergo the meditation. Through meditation you forget your body-identity, you forget about your body-concepts.

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So until you’ve got Conviction, until you remain untouched with the world, untouched with the body-based knowledge, you have to undergo the discipline of meditation. And as I told you that during the meditation and involvement, you may come across with some miraculous experiences, but it is not Reality. They are progressive steps.

Spiritual knowledge says there are three types of miraculous experiences occurring, positive miraculous experiences: Darshan, Sparshan, and Sambhashan. ‘Darshan’ means: after having strong involvement in spirituality, you see your Gods and Godesses and Masters etc., near about you. That sight you’re getting, that transference of sight. ‘Sparshan’ means you’ll get some touch of your Masters. Suppose you’re in difficulties, you’ll feel them placing their hand on your head. Sambhashan means that sometimes your Master, your God, is talking with you. You’ll have some experiences, it’s fact, it happens. So it is a sign of strong devotion, but it is not Reality. Not to stop there. Some day it may happen that the ego will distract you from the Reality: “Oh, I’ve got miraculous power, I can do it!” or something. Nisargadatta once said: “Suppose you’ve got some miraculous power. You’ll use it for one time, second time, but maybe the third time it doesn’t happen, so you’ll collapse.”

So, these are progressive steps, not Ultimate Truth. So be cautious, be alert. And my Master says “I’m not making you a disciple, I’m making you a Master”.  Same thing I’m repeating to you: I’m not making you a disciple, I’m making you a Master. You are Master, you’re already Master. I’m not telling you to please you, it is fact. Because you forgot your identity, the only thing I’m doing is reminding you of your identity, inviting all the time your attention: that Invisible Listener within you is Master of Masters. It’s everywhere just like space or sky. Like the five elements, fire is everywhere, water is everywhere, sky is everywhere. You’re the Projector of the five elements, but you don’t know.

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Basically, no knowledge is knowledge. What is knowledge? Knowledge means just to identify oneself in a real sense. We’re identifying in body-form and that is illusion. And as you know, it is a very clear thing. Basically, nothing was there prior to beingness, and after leaving the body nothing will be there.  What is the use of knowledge? Because you forgot your identity. And if you glance within you – forget about the world, sit quietly, glance within you – what is there? Bones? Blood? Hm? And Flesh. What is the value of this body? If there is no Presence for a moment, what is the value of this body?

We have a lot of planning, egoistic planning. So, I’m not asking you to neglect your body. Do your duties, do your job, but remain untouched with the body-based knowledge. Because it’s fact, open fact: the body is not your identity, the body was not your identity, the body is not going to remain your identity. But you’re not accepting this fact. And to accept this fact spontaneously, you have to undergo the meditation only. And during meditation, as I told you, you’ll go through so many experiences, miraculous experiences, magical experiences. You may get some power also, it happens. But not to use or not to misuse that power – it happens, you’ve got miraculous power. But that is not Ultimate Truth.

With strong involvement will come some power, you’ll feel it. And there may be chances of ego, subtle ego: “Oh yes, I’ve got power, I can do something.” So that ego is supposed to be dissolved. These are a kind of progressive steps. So this is a precautionary measure I’m telling you, it happens, but it is not connected with any Reality.

Anybody having any questions? Be free, don’t worry, this is friendly chatting. I’m not delivering some spiritual lectures, I’m not considering myself as a ‘great spiritual master’ like that. Bodies are different, same thing is there.

Q: Maharaj, I’m noticing that I have been doing, you know I’ve been doing different practices for many years, and different Mantras come up in different contexts. That has been my practice, if you will. So, would you advise me as to…

Maharaj: What you’ve been told, that Mantra, you recite that Mantra. See, it is told that this Mantra came from Dattatreya. It has got tremendous value, importance, power, energy with this Mantra. It creates some vibrations inside. When you are reciting the Mantra, you’ll forget your body-identity. You’ll become one with the Mantra. What is the meaning of the Mantra? : I am Brahman, Brahman I am. It is not something else, it is practical, it is your Reality. You forgot your Reality. You’re reminding Reality, your Self.

So whatever Mantra is given, it may be any Mantra, forget it you got this Mantra, some say “Aham Brahmasmi”, “Sivoham”, “Soham”, these are the various words. But whatever Mantra you’ve got, be loyal with that Mantra. Because through the Mantra you’re inviting the attention of the Invisible Presence: “You’re Brahman, Atman”.

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Q: So are we supposed to recite the Mantra at the same time?

Maharaj: All the time, all the time, you can recite Mantra all the time. When you’re sitting for meditation, sit in that fashion, what I told you. At the initial stage, I’m telling you again: Mantra, meditation are required at the beginning stage, until you’ve got Conviction, until you remain untouched with the body-based knowledge, body-based concepts. Then all your actions will be spontaneous, untouched with the world. Though you’re holding the body as a man or woman, male or female, you’re untouched with the world. No concern. You’re living in this body, doing all activities, as if you’re acting in some drama, as if you’re acting in a dream. Are you taking any ego saying “I’ve done a good thing or a bad thing” (in a dream)? There’s no deed, there’s no doer. No experience, no experiencer. Even if you have the experience ‘I am Brahman’, it is also illusion. Where everything ends, there you are! Everything came out of nothing, everything dissolves within nothing! If at all you want to compare, compare just like sky or space. Space is everywhere. Is American sky different and Indian sky different? Sky is sky.

Those who are here holding these bodies, the Spirit and Presence is one, there’s no difference. When I’m talking with you I have to take ego that ‘I’m something else’. There’s no difference at all. How we are prior to a hundred years, just remain, nothing, we don’t know. After a hundred years, how will you be? “I don’t know”. ‘I don’t know’ means we are shapeless, no birth or death. The body is only the media to identify yourself.

It is very simple Reality, it is the Listener’s Reality. Not to run after miracles. You don’t need to go anywhere. Everything is within you. But we’re not giving importance to ourself, we’re giving importance to something else. Your Spontaneous, Invisible Presence is having tremendous power. It is the Master of Masters. And again I’m repeating, to dissolve all body-knowledge, all body-based concepts, you have to undergo the meditation at the beginning stage. Whatever experiences are happening during the process of meditation, just ignore it. Good experiences, bad experiences.

And as I told you, spiritual science says there are three types of experiences. ‘Darshan’ means you can see the Gods and Godesses and idols. ‘Sparshan’ means you feel the touch also, and ‘Sambhashan’ means talking. It happens, it can happen, but it’s not Ultimate Truth.

So not to come across with such elements that will distract you from the Reality. Such elements may be that you come across some miraculous experiences, or unpleasant experiences. It happens. Where were those experiences prior to beingness? And after leaving the body, any experience remains? Nothing.